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Post subject: apt-get or aptitude
 Posted: Feb 25, 2007 - 11:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 20, 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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Hi,
I saw lots of people here are still recommending apt-get (instead of aptitude). So I'm wondering, are sidux packages initially installed by aptitude or apt-get?
PS. about aptitude.
aptitude has a command line interface very similar to apt-get, if you like apt-get, then you will love aptitude. What aptitude has over apt-get is that it tracks which packages have been installed manually and which have been installed automatically (i. e. to fulfill dependencies). Automatically installed packages will be uninstalled as soon as they are no longer needed. I.e., when an automatically installed package is no longer needed when the last package depending on it is removed, aptitude will remove that too. |
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Post subject: RE: apt-get or aptitude
Posted: Feb 25, 2007 - 11:40 PM
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Team Member
Joined: Nov 27, 2006
Posts: 1947
Location: underworld
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http://sidux.com/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-4 ... itude.html
Not advised for SID or sidux |
_________________
sidux uses high compression technology > special care is needed when burning the iso > please burn in DAO-mode, DAO or DIE. NEVER EVER do a apt-get upgrade or use adept, synaptic or aptitude
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Post subject: RE: apt-get or aptitude
Posted: Feb 25, 2007 - 11:41 PM
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Team Member
Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 1856
Location: w3
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Quote:
.... Automatically installed packages will be uninstalled as soon as they are no longer needed. I.e., when an automatically installed package is no longer needed when the last package depending on it is removed, aptitude will remove that too.
Wow! - a wow!-application in Linux! That's so - wow! - fantastic innovative, I can't really believe it! An application I don't just might use, but even love!
Official answer: This tool is very much depreciated in sidux because it's not designed to handle the complex situations in Debian Sid. Don't use it, we will not support it and any problems you might later on run into because you insisted to use it.
It might have it's place in stabilized repositories (Debian Stable, Ubuntu), however.
Greetings,
Chris |
_________________
64bit stuff for sidux
development is life - code.zikula.org
an operating system must operate - sidux.com
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Post subject: RE: apt-get or aptitude
Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 12:01 AM
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Joined: Nov 25, 2006
Posts: 2477
Status: Offline
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You'll find a number of exhaustive reasonings from slam or me why we do not recommend aptitude on debian sid and therefore sidux, as aptitude isn't even installed on the ISO we do not and will not use it to create the ISO (or for anything else), just like aptitude isn't an option for buildds.
If you as the end user prefer aptitude, feel free to install and use it yourself, we will recommend against it though. |
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Post subject: RE: apt-get or aptitude
Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 12:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 20, 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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so, what is recommended for house cleaning then, if I install sidux?
apt-get + manual, or ...? |
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Post subject: RE: apt-get or aptitude
Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 12:10 AM
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Team Member
Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 2710
Location: berlin
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if you want more comfort in searching, use kpackage or synaptic.
for installing or removing stuff, better use apt.
greetz
devil |
Last edited by devil on Feb 26, 2007 - 01:18 AM; edited 1 time in total
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Post subject: RE: apt-get or aptitude
Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 12:30 AM
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Team Member
Joined: Nov 27, 2006
Posts: 1947
Location: underworld
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Code:
apt-get remove --purge application
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_________________
sidux uses high compression technology > special care is needed when burning the iso > please burn in DAO-mode, DAO or DIE. NEVER EVER do a apt-get upgrade or use adept, synaptic or aptitude
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Post subject: RE: apt-get or aptitude
Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 12:48 AM
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Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 1856
Location: w3
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House cleaning - one of many possible examples (only needed if free disk space is low):
Code:
apt-get clean
while D=$(deborphan);test -n "$D"; do apt-get remove --purge --yes $D; done
remove-orphans
Also a re-boot once a week does free some additional space.
Greetings,
Chris |
_________________
64bit stuff for sidux
development is life - code.zikula.org
an operating system must operate - sidux.com
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Post subject: RE: apt-get or aptitude
Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 01:08 AM
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Joined: Jan 10, 2007
Posts: 738
Status: Offline
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| xpt, did you have a look on h2's script? There a lot of cleaning options included |
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Post subject: RE: apt-get or aptitude
Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 04:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 20, 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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thanks everyone for the reply.
Form the responds, I have a feeling that devil and piper never bothered to clean the left-over libs that the trial installations throw in, and slam does it only when free disk space is low.
I on the other hand, like a clean system -- it bothers me when I have a packages that I don't actually need, but have to keep updating (and maintaining) it. Well, guess I have to go with the aptitude solution at my own risk then. It might be not that capable, but it does gives me a clean system without much hassle -- I'm using Debian Testing currently, and for nearly a year, I haven't met a situation that is too complex for aptitude to handle.
@BlueShadow, thanks for the advice, I'll sure take a look at the h2's script. |
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Post subject: RE: apt-get or aptitude
Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 04:38 AM
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Team Member
Joined: Nov 27, 2006
Posts: 1947
Location: underworld
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Quote:
Form the responds, I have a feeling that devil and piper never bothered to clean the left-over libs that the trial installations throw in, and slam does it only when free disk space is low.
I don't have time for that, after I am done building the iso, testing it, I have to do it all over again, makes it kind of useless don't you think  . If I had too, I would do it like slam, or make a "kick" list, and like said above the script does this all for you |
_________________
sidux uses high compression technology > special care is needed when burning the iso > please burn in DAO-mode, DAO or DIE. NEVER EVER do a apt-get upgrade or use adept, synaptic or aptitude
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Post subject: RE: apt-get or aptitude
Posted: Feb 26, 2007 - 11:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 09, 2006
Posts: 95
Location: Brisbane Australia
Status: Offline
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| The rhetoric does not match my personal experience however. I've used aptitude exclusively on kanotix and now on sidux for coming on 3 years and never had a problem (well other than the universal xorg/kde major transition issues we all saw). I update frequently so can it just be luck? When apt-get finally includes automatic dependency removal I may start using it. Call me a neat freak if you will. |
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Post subject: RE: apt-get or aptitude
Posted: Feb 27, 2007 - 09:48 AM
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Team Member
Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 1856
Location: w3
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Well, there is an important difference between a clean system and a broken system.
Personal experiences (even if they are long term) are important for all of us to build opinions, but those are not relevant here.
Just an example: You may have 30 years of experience that it is no problem at all to have no fire insurance for your house, but if a fire actually destroys your house - what is your experience worth by then? There always was this risk and an useful and affordable solution to manage this risk, but you simply ignored it.
What really counts here are technical facts as a base to give the sidux community advice it can count on. Fact is that aptitude is not always able the huge amount of changes which happen in Sid (depency changes, name changes, maintainer script changes, ...). That's not the fault of aptitude developers though, they wrote a nice tool which is simply just not suitable for the very special needs of Debian Sid.
So, use whatever you like to search for packages, but stick with apt-get for actually installing/removing/dist-upgrading.
Greetings,
Chris |
_________________
64bit stuff for sidux
development is life - code.zikula.org
an operating system must operate - sidux.com
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Post subject: RE: apt-get or aptitude
Posted: Feb 27, 2007 - 01:06 PM
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Joined: Nov 25, 2006
Posts: 2477
Status: Offline
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| ....and yes, apt-get vs. aptitude is indeed a discussion based upon personal opinions and experiences, but our collective experiences suggested that aptitude is at least non-deterministic (for a complex package selection you don't know for sure), mix that with a quickly moving target like sid and even worse external repository of questionable quality (we don't use or recommend those, but they're a reality on user systems) and you're calling for disaster. apt-get on the other hand strictly does what itis asked to do, if there is any breakage you can pinpoint and debug/ fix the cause, if it wants to remove half of the system (due to library transitions) it's the admin's call to have at least a casual look - aptitude tries just to be too damned smart for its own good (there is a reason why debian buildds use apt-get, not aptitude). |
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Post subject: RE: apt-get or aptitude
Posted: Feb 27, 2007 - 06:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 01, 2006
Posts: 481
Location: NYC/NJ Shore area
Status: Offline
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Quote:
aptitude tries just to be too damned smart for its own good (there is a reason why debian buildds use apt-get, not aptitude).
If you allow it to,or have those options on giveing it permission to try and be too smart for it's own good.....agreed!  |
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