| Author |
Message |
|
|
Post subject: sidux Quick Start Guide
 Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 05:15 AM
|
|
Joined: Dec 01, 2006
Posts: 898
Status: Offline
|
|
Today I saw a post of a new sidux user that got the wrong impression of the stability and functionality of sidux. All of this could have avoided, but there is no central place that touches on things that are recommended and visible to the average adventerous distro hopper. So I'm starting one that gets to what you want with as little text and most content as possible.
Commands will either be bold or in a code box for multiple commands.
----------------------------
If you are a new user, please remember to skim through each topic as you might find something that will prevent LOTS of pain and heart ache.
On a side note, you can check the sidux manual for more advanced help
http://manual.sidux.com
To clear up confusions - sidux is completely compatible with Debian Sid. sidux packages that override packages in Debian Sid are always temporary and are used until the problem package is fixed in the sid repositories. Extra sidux specific packages include things such as homebrew scripts and tools to make your life less redundant.
Debian sid/unstable stability
Sid is a name tag for the unstable repositories of Debian. Debian sid is a frequently updated repository that is quick to stay in sync with latest and greatest upstream versions of software maintained. Because of the frequency of updates, less overall testing on packages is possible from the shortened period of time between upstream and distributed Debian packages.
So mathematically, Debian sid is supposed to be unstable...
Package Management
sidux is fully compliant with vanilla Debian Sid. Debian uses apt-get and dpkg for software package management.
apt-get
apt-get is used for management of packages in conjunction with debian and other repositories identified by the files at /etc/sources.list.d/*
Debian Sid's repositories are updated once or twice a day on average so the list of available packages and their versions get out of date fast. Running apt-get update is recommended before installing any new packages or before running apt-get dist-upgrade to keep up-to-date with the server's list of packages.
apt-get dist-upgrade is the preferred and supported way of upgrading sidux. Using any graphical front end to update sidux is unsupported and dangerous. Unexplainable problems with KDE and other foundation type software, like X, usually are the applications that are affected. Some packages will also request to restart or stop X during the upgrade process. This can interrupt apt-get (as it is running from a terminal in X) and may leave your system at an unusable state.
Upgrading is supported only outside of X. Running init 3 from your window manager (KDE, XFCE, etc) or in a virtual terminal (ctrl+alt+f1, ctrl+alt+f2, etc) will stop X from running and allows you to upgrade safely.
By upgrading in X, you basically "void your warranty" and most users will refuse to help you, or just point you to reinstall sidux 
smxi is recommended for running dist-upgrades the safe way. It handles broken packages and is monitored by sidux members to prevent upgrades to problem packages and includes hotfixes to major issues if they arise. Peruse the sidux forum if you are interested on its full functionality.
And of course, installing and removing is the same --
Code:
apt-get install <package>
apt-get remove <package>
apt-get remove --purge <package> # removes global configuration files
apt-cache search <search item> # can be one ore more words
apt-get GUIs and frontends
Synaptic, KPackage, and Adept are not recommended for package installation. They add an unnecessary point of failure to any process of manipulating packages, especially in a fast moving rolling repository.
RPM and source
Using alien to convert a deb is definitely NOT supported at all. If you can't find a specific package you want in the Debian repositories, try looking online for Debian compatible repository that holds it. If you can't find anything, compiling by source may be your only choice. Source installs are also completely unsupported. checkinstall can be used to make a quick package of software from source, but they are nonstandard and may cause undesirable problems - don't go around advertising them to other users.
Ubuntu is NOT Debian
Although Ubuntu and their variants use the same package format, Ubuntu also uses different file locations for various applications which could cause system instability. Ubuntu also uses a different version of glibc which could cause the application to not even run anyway. Because Ubuntu also has different packages in their host repository, some packages won't install due to unresolvable dependencies from different package naming schemes or odd version numbers.
sidux kernel
The kernel included in sidux is an optimized and tweaked version of the (usually) latest kernel from http://kernel.org. It is maintained by slh who patches the kernel to fix common issues, add new functionality, or configure for faster performance and better stability.
NOTE!! Do not use the kernel available through apt-get. This is the stock debian kernel which does not include any of the fixes, tweaks, and precompiled modules available in the slh kernel.
smxi includes functionality to upgrade to the latest and greatest slh kernel if you request.
Optionally, you can use one of sidux's mirrors to directly download the latest kernel --> http://sidux.com/Article303.html
Included in the kernel zip archive is the install-kernel-sidux.sh script that installs the proper packages and sets the newly installed kernel as default.
kernel-source-ng.bash is also included. It includes functionality to download a target linux kernel and install patches that are used in the kernel bundled with the script - basically making a duplicate slh kernel to start from.
Removing sidux kernels
kernel-remover is a script located in the sidux-kernelhacking package in the sidux repositories. It allows you to remove any non-active kernel on your system, including all the modules that come with it.
Currently it is not included on the sidux default installation - but you can grab it through apt-get
sgfxi - Graphics Driver Installer (proprietary nVidia / ATi and Open Xorg drivers)
This tool, written by h2, automates the task of installing the nvidia and fglrx drivers necessary to get the full functionality out of your nvidia or ati graphics hardware.
NVIDIA - sgfxi is highly recommended against the Debian nvidia packages. It's usually updated on the day a new driver comes out and includes common options in xorg.conf for compiz to run properly.
ATI - sgfxi will work if the fglrx packages in sid work with the version of X currently installed and the kernel you are running. Because of the predictable randomness of compatibility and naming schemes of each new version of fglrx, support can be shaky. Ask around in the forum or IRC chat if you have problems.
sgfxi can also revert to open source drivers with the -n or -N <driver> command
Code:
sgfxi -n #identifies radeon, nv, and intel drivers automatically
sgfxi -N <driver> #can be used to install a specific driver, also includes optimizations for the radeon driver.
smxi - the swiss army knife of sidux
smxi streamlines upgrades of sidux - allows quick and easy installation of new updated sidux kernels - can include hotfixes to issues common to all sidux users if needed - includes automation some level of automation for installing virtualbox and vmware - a bunch of little doodads
Here are some quotes from user's experiences:
"not just another pretty script" - Ghstryder
"smxi is like rape" - thaycs
"i thought i was looking at assembly" - damentz
"you should refer to smxi as: a bloated cow, frequently requiring purgings of excess dead weight, instead of 'a home brew master script'" - h2
init levels
For each init level, a different set of services and scripts run.
Level 0 shuts down your system while level 6 runs scripts to restart your system.
Level 1 is maintenance mode, otherwise known as single user mode. Usually used when you need to check a filesystem's integrity or other crazy things.
Level 3 and 5 have only one difference -
Level 5 runs all set services, including X.
Level 3 runs all set services, decluding X.
Level 3 is most commonly for upgrading sidux or running applications that need to survive a restart of X.
You can set which level to run in with the init command.
init 5 will change to level 5. If you are already in level 5, nothing will happen even if you stopped a service that should be running in level 5. To fix that, just switch between two levels or start the service manually.
Network Configuration
Ceni is a network configuration tool, written by kelmo, to quickly configure your network or wireless card with little fuss. The wireless function can scan for networks, use wep and wpa for encryption, and use wireless-tools or wpa_supplicant for wireless configuration. Ethernet is straight forward if using dhcp (automatic ip address assigning) or you can manually setting many things from netmasks to nameservers.
Ceni is run with the command - Ceni - with a capital C. If not installed, you can install it with the command apt-get install ceni
System Information
infobash is a neat tool to display some of the most relative information on your computer. This is typically used on IRC when information is needed to continue troubleshooting a problem or just to boast your system specifications.
GNOME Support
gnome is not supported by sidux. Gnome packages in the sid repositories are known to be unstable and cause unnecessary issues. Some users in the IRC chat may have experience and be willing to help you, otherwise you are on your own. In other news, KDE and fluxbox are supported by sidux and you will get more help and sympathy by using those. Although XFCE is not supported, you will probably find someone willing to help you out with that particular window manager due to its overall popularity for users trying to pump life into older computers.
IRC and Forum help
Don't be afraid to ask for help through IRC or the forum! Being assertive can sometimes get you to the answer you want faster than googling for answers.
Before getting help through either communcation medium, please skim through sidux' code of conduct >> http://sidux.com/index.php?module=pnWikka&tag=CodexsiduxEN. |
_________________
"Cool was never cool until the cool guys at Cool industries developed a cool new product: Cool."
Last edited by damentz on Jan 21, 2008 - 02:31 AM; edited 21 times in total
|
| |
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Post subject: sidux Quick Start Guide
Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 08:37 AM
|
|
Team Member
Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 3874
Location: berlin
Status: Offline
|
|
hi damentz,
nice job, good start.
i just made some changes and corrections (in red) for better understanding.
there is a lil howto on using irc right to get best answers and keep supporters happy which could be linked to the last paragraph. just cant find it right now.
a pointer to the manual should be set at the beginning, asking to read it before asking stuff for the 1000st time on irc or forum.
greetz
devil |
_________________
>>we are sidux - resistance is futile - you will be assimilated<<
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 12:06 PM
|
|
Joined: Nov 25, 2006
Posts: 571
|
|
i would like to make some corrections to the original post.
sidux is delivered with KDE and as fallback window manager fluxbox.
none of the other that exist in the debian repositories or in non-debian repositories are afaik officially supported.
how i understand the things till now is:
KDE is supported
fluxbox is a fallback
NOT supported.
TWM
XFCE
GNOME
ICEWM
E16.9999
all others you can write here
EDIT: well adding package "foo" to a sidux install makes it potentially an unsupported sidux installation.
That does not mean that you can not find some other sidux-users that have made the same mistake and can help you when you have problems with that. |
_________________
Why do strong arms fatigue themselves with frivolous dumbbells?
To dig a vineyard is worthier exercise for men.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 02:29 PM
|
|
Joined: Nov 09, 2007
Posts: 201
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
|
|
|
x-un-i wrote:
i would like to make some corrections to the original post.
sidux is delivered with KDE and as fallback window manager fluxbox.
none of the other that exist in the debian repositories or in non-debian repositories are afaik officially supported.
how i understand the things till now is:
NOT supported.
XFCE
Xfce is in smxi.. I wonder if it should get ripped out? I'd hate to see that happen as I quite like it, but just throwing it out there.. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 05:05 PM
|
|
Joined: Nov 28, 2006
Posts: 4950
Status: Offline
|
|
xfce's presence in smxi is just as a convenience to anyone who wants to install it, but I can add a note that says that presence does not indicate that it's actually supported by sidux.
xfce has pretty good support overall in sid, and tends to be reasonably stable, so using it is fairly safe, but that doesn't mean that sidux devs are going to be officially supporting breaks etc.
I tend to offer basic support in smxi for xfce, because I use it, but only in terms of holding packages to avoid breaks or other problems, nothing more intensive.
by the way, I agree, this quick readme idea is a good one, I was just thinking of something like that too, in the shape of a simple faq, but damentz did it already, so that's good. |
_________________
sidux Maintenance script: dist-upgrade, kernel install, general utilities: smxi
Backup script [rsync or rdiff-backup]: rbxi
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 05:39 PM
|
|
Team Member
Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 2698
Location: w3
Status: Offline
|
|
|
Quote:
apt-get dist-upgrade is the preferred and supported way of upgrading sidux. Using any graphical front end to update sidux is unsupported and dangerous (random unexplainable problems with kde and other foundation like X are usually target problem applications that usually get affected). Some applications will also request to restart or stop X during the upgrade process which can interrupt the process and may leave your system at an unusable state.
Those problems are neither random nor unpredictable at all. They are simply too complex to be explained to an average user lacking advanced knowledge/interest about how X and the dpkg actually work. Such knowledge is not needed at all to run sidux, so do not worry. However, we tell people to use dpkg/apt because we do not have the time and motivation to write 5 pages of boring technical explanations every time a user runs into breakages or non-starting X, and we are not willing to guide them through extensive fixes every time they try to do the opposite of what we have recommended.
Greetings,
Chris |
_________________
an operating system must operate - sidux.com
development is life - code.zikula.org
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jan 14, 2008 - 12:28 AM
|
|
Joined: Dec 01, 2006
Posts: 898
Status: Offline
|
|
Thanks devil for pointing out those mistakes, I was in a hurry and thought faster than I could type.
Quote:
Those problems are neither random nor unpredictable at all.
Corrected, I put perceived randomness. |
_________________
"Cool was never cool until the cool guys at Cool industries developed a cool new product: Cool."
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jan 14, 2008 - 03:48 AM
|
|
Joined: Dec 05, 2006
Posts: 522
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
|
|
Perhaps it would be helpful, if this or something similar appeared when the user selects Install.
All of these points become very important at and after installing. The manual page that shows up when the LiveCD loads is good, IMO, but these points really become important when installing. Sort of a ReadMe for installing.
There is no cure for stupidity, but ignorance can be improved. Thanks to Damentz.
saludos,
Richard. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jan 14, 2008 - 07:32 AM
|
|
Joined: Dec 02, 2006
Posts: 78
Location: Graz/Austria
Status: Offline
|
|
Well done damentz.
I think this Quick Start Guide should be formatted into one single page that shows up together with/within the 'Installation-progress-box' during the installation process.
(Please no Windows-like feature-slideshow, just one single and well formatted page you can't click away)
Manuel |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jan 14, 2008 - 10:06 AM
|
|
Joined: Dec 01, 2007
Posts: 275
Location: Enschede NL
Status: Offline
|
|
|
Quote:
Today I saw a post of a new sidux user that got the wrong impression of the stability and functionality of sidux. All of this could have avoided, but there is no central place that touches on things that are recommended and visible to the average adventerous distro hopper. So I'm starting one that gets to what you want with as little text and most content as possible.
I think it's useful, especially if a short explanation has a link to more verbose part in the manual. However, the text does not address the stability. It needs an explanation of what 'unstable' is and how that's different from 'stable', in Debian terms and ordinary language.
As an "average adventerous distro hopper" I've spent considerable time with the manual before installation, resulting in an A4 full of notes. Now I'd say that all I really needed to know was:
- download sidux ISO file for intended architecture,
- burn ISO as slow as possible with every check and double-check enabled,
- install sidux,
- visit forum to see if there are upgrade warnings,
- go to runlevel 3,
- use smxi (the swiss army knife of sidux),
- go to runlevel 5,
- read manual for details and explanations, visit forum and IRC for further assistance. See the Code of Conduct for why certain issues need to be dealt with on IRC exclusively. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jan 14, 2008 - 10:22 AM
|
|
Team Member
Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 3874
Location: berlin
Status: Offline
|
|
it would be perfect if all users would pursue the sidux adventure in such a smart way.
unfortunately my guess is that under 10 % do it that way.
we have to many 'powerusers'. they think they've seen it all and know it all and, of course will run ito trouble that could have been avoided.
i agree with schnaps1 that it should not be more than 1 well formatted page.
where it will be shown we will decide once its done, installer would be one way to do it.
greetz
devil |
_________________
>>we are sidux - resistance is futile - you will be assimilated<<
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jan 14, 2008 - 01:14 PM
|
|
Joined: Dec 02, 2006
Posts: 121
Status: Offline
|
|
|
x-un-i wrote:
EDIT: well adding package "foo" to a sidux install makes it potentially an unsupported sidux installation.
Code:
apt-get install klines
WARNING: Are you sure you want install additional package? It will make your installation officially unsupported.
I'd like to know somebody with supported sidux  |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jan 14, 2008 - 06:17 PM
|
|
Joined: Mar 29, 2007
Posts: 233
Location: München
Status: Offline
|
|
|
devil wrote:
my guess is that under 10 % do it that way.
*offtopic on
proud of being part.
*offtopic off
to get this one into german to the Linux days in Chemnitz would be to sharp in time ? (and yes : i can't help 'cause my schoolenglish is to bad to translate it right)
greetings
M. (still thinking such a "quickstart" ist neccesary in most languages)
p.s.: Damentz, apreciate? this(your work) |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jan 14, 2008 - 06:49 PM
|
|
Joined: Dec 02, 2006
Posts: 2294
Status: Offline
|
|
| Nice README, damentz. This definitely should also be shown as part of the install process. Also should be an icon on the livecd desktop linking to this doc, to supplement the manual that is displayed upon desktop's startup |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jan 15, 2008 - 05:50 PM
|
|
Joined: Nov 25, 2006
Posts: 571
|
|
|
maslot wrote:
I'd like to know somebody with supported sidux Shocked
Those that run it from a live CD or run it with clean dist-upgrades;) or do you think there is a chance to test all software combinations out there ? Then start up;)
again..
x-un-i wrote:
That does not mean that you can not find some other sidux-users that have made the same mistake and can help you when you have problems with that.
|
_________________
Why do strong arms fatigue themselves with frivolous dumbbells?
To dig a vineyard is worthier exercise for men.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
